Legislature(2005 - 2006)BUTROVICH 205
04/05/2006 03:30 PM Senate RESOURCES
Audio | Topic |
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Start | |
HB37 | |
HB218 | |
HB380 | |
Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+= | HB 37 | TELECONFERENCED | |
+ | HB 218 | TELECONFERENCED | |
+ | HB 380 | TELECONFERENCED | |
CSHB 37(FIN) AM-PUBLIC ACCESS TO FISHING STREAMS CHAIR THOMAS WAGONER announced CSHB 37(FIN) AM to be up for consideration. REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA, sponsor of HB 37, explained that the bill asks the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) to create a list of areas where public access to fishing streams might be lost when the land is developed. He mentioned Montana Creek in the Mat-Su Valley, the Anchor River on the Kenai, and Deep Creek on the Kenai as examples and said people have been fishing in these areas for years and nobody has cared that the access is across private land. That might not be the case in the future so HB 37 is a proactive step to negotiate for continued public access before the lands are developed and become too expensive to return to the public domain. 3:40:27 PM SENATOR DYSON asked if DNR or the administration approve of the bill. DICK MYLIUS, Director, Division of Mining, Land, and Water, Department of Natural Resources, replied DNR believes it is a good idea to identify access points, but it recognizes that there is an associated cost. The bill simply sets up a process whereby the Alaska Department of Fish and Game (ADF&G) would identify where access is needed and DNR would determine the options and costs for the acquisitions. It would then be up to the legislature to fund the acquisitions or not. SENATOR STEDMAN expressed concern with the long-term effects of creating a list because the language in the bill is a lot more aggressive than what is implied. CHAIR WAGONER noted the proposed amendments that change the language. 3:42:57 PM SENATOR BEN STEVENS asked where the bill says that the list comes back to the legislature for authorization. MR. MYLIUS replied it is on page 3, line 10. CHAIR WAGONER noted that the bill says that before February of each year the commissioner of fish and game shall submit a plan to acquire public access to fish and wildlife, but it doesn't say it goes back to the legislature. SENATOR BEN STEVENS asked Mr. Mylius if that is where he is saying the plan has to go to the legislature for approval of the appropriation to execute the plan the following fiscal year. MR. MYLIUS acknowledged it doesn't say it exactly, but when the fiscal notes were prepared DNR assumed there would not be money in the bill for acquisitions. The assumption was that the department would have to return to the legislature with a subsequent request. For a purchase the request would be for an appropriation for a specific purpose and for a land exchange the request would ask for financing to fund the exchange. SENATOR BEN STEVENS asked if the assumption was that the department would ask the legislature for approval of the authorization to expend the funds, but not approval to select the land. MR. MYLIUS replied that is correct. SENATOR BEN STEVENS recalled that the original bill mentioned the acquisition of only two miles, but according to subsection (c) two miles would be acquired each year. REPRESENTATIVE GARA replied there is an amendment to address that issue, but the intention was for the list to include a set number of miles. There ought to be minimum number of miles for DNR to identify each year but the state probably won't purchase everything on the list each year. In fact, it probably won't purchase through the list in a decade. "It's not like you'll have a new 2 or 3 or 4 miles every year. It'll just be as it's purchased through." The list will probably look the same until the legislature decides to buy. 3:47:23 PM SENATOR KOOKESH joined the meeting. 3:47:33 PM CHAIR WAGONER mentioned that the amendment says 2 to 5 miles per year. REPRESENTATIVE GARA said it's the committee's discretion so long as the top number isn't too high. CHAIR WAGONER closed the public hearing. He noted the three amendments and asked for a motion. 3:48:39 PM SENATOR FRED DYSON moved CSHB 37(FIN) AM, Version X.A for consideration. SENATOR BERT STEDMAN objected. SENATOR KIM ELTON moved to adopt Amendment 1, labeled X.A.3. 24-LS0284\XA.3 Bullock 9/25/06 A M E N D M E N T 1 OFFERED IN THE SENATE TO: CSHB 37(FIN) am Page 3, line 13, following "two": Insert "and not more than a total of five" SENATOR DYSON called a point of order saying there was an objection to moving the bill. CHAIR WAGONER clarified that the objection was for discussion purposes so the bill is before the committee. SENATOR ELTON restated his motion. SENATOR BEN STEVENS objected. SENATOR ELTON said the sponsor took note when Senator Stedman identified the open-ended language, which required "a minimum access to not less than a total of two meander miles..." The proposed amendment tightens the language by inserting "not more than a total of five meander miles". Therefore, over time there would be no additions to the plan until the list dropped below two miles. SENATOR STEDMAN responded the language is still problematic because there would be an action every year and in his view the more land that is kept in private hands, the better it is for the state. SENATOR ELTON explained that the amendment caps the plan, but it doesn't change other restricting components in the bill. Nothing compels an easement or a sale; it specifically says that the right of eminent domain may not be exercised to acquire land or interest in land. CHAIR WAGONER asked Senator Stevens if he maintained his objection. SENATOR STEVENS asked where it says it will cap the plan because he interpreted the language differently. 3:54:20 PM SENATOR ELTON explained that the departments will proffer one plan and it may have not less than 2 miles and not more than 5. He looked to the sponsor and said he didn't believe anything would preclude the departments from having a new plan the next year that may not include or identify the same stream access points. However, if the departments submit a new plan it would be restricted, just as the old plan was, to not less than 2 meander miles and more not more than 5. The cap applies to the meander miles; it doesn't preclude the department from changing or identifying other meander miles. 3:55:42 PM SENATOR BEN STEVENS countered his reading is that there shall be 2 to 5 miles acquired every year and there is no cap on the number of miles acquired in the plan. Hypothetically, he said, 50 meander miles of riverbank could be acquired in 10 years. He asked if his interpretation was incorrect. SENATOR ELTON replied no, but you would only get to that position if the legislature authorized access to all meander miles in the plan. You could only add miles if access has been provided to all the areas in the plan. At that point the department could add meander miles in a subsequent plan. That would only occur after the legislature has made a decision to appropriate funds to acquire the access. 3:57:18 PM REPRESENTATIVE GARA said Senator Elton explained the intention of the bill, but Senator Stevens raised a good point. The state probably won't purchase access to all the land that is on the list each year so the departments should not be required to keep submitting a new list each year even if it's the same one. He suggested inserting language to clarify that an annual plan isn't required as long as at least 2 miles remain on the list for future acquisition. He offered to work with the committee on a conceptual amendment. 3:58:02 PM SENATOR BEN STEVENS said he wasn't prepared to work on a conceptual amendment; he had additional concerns. For instance, Section 2, subsection (b)(2), gives the commissioner of DNR the authority to trade state land for private land with no legislative approval or fiscal note transaction. There is no understanding that an assessment would be done, that the land trade would be at fair market value and that it would be a transaction of equal value. The commissioner could trade 5 miles each year and although it wouldn't cost anything, the legislature wouldn't have any authority to prevent it. MR. MYLIUS replied while the bill doesn't specifically require DNR to go back to the legislature, the only way a purchase could occur is through the budget process. He agreed that the department could exchange land without legislative approval, but there's already a process for that. However, the statute for land exchange requires an exchange at fair market appraised value or, in its absence, it requires legislative approval. CHAIR WAGONER said the question before the committee is adoption of Amendment X.A.3. 4:02:06 PM SENATOR ELTON argued in favor of the amendment because it is controlling and precludes a large land trade by placing a top- end cap. SENATOR DYSON called a question on the amendment. A roll call vote was taken. The motion to adopt Amendment X.A.3 passed with 4 yeas and 3 nays. Senator Dyson, Senator Elton, Senator Kookesh and Senator Wagoner voted in favor and Senator Stedman, Senator Ben Stevens, and Senator Seekins voted against. CHAIR WAGONER said he would hold his amendments because he could see the direction the bill was going. He noted Senator Stedman's objection to the bill and asked for a roll call. A roll call vote was taken and Senator Elton, Senator Kookesh and Senator Dyson voted yea and Senator Stedman, Senator Ben Stevens, Senator Seekins and Senator Wagoner voted nay. CSHB 37(FIN) AM failed to move from committee.
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